As per our assignment due today, I wanted you to ask three parties some neutral questions about feminism. What is a feminist? Are you a feminist? Why/not? I'm curious to see what your questioning yield and your reactions to your research and to others. Engage one another, ask questions, add links, and let's get this discussion started!
I interviewed exactly three parties so I'm not saying that my research is conclusive/applies to all people but I noticed several things about the people answering my questions. When I asked my cousin (who is a male) and a friend (who is also a male), both of their answers were really similar. They both said something along the lines of how they weren't feminists because feminism was about women gaining rights, and men have no reason to benefit from that. They both defined feminism very similarly, as a struggle or fight for equality among the sexes. However, there was a female stranger I interviewed who probably cared less about feminism than my cousin and friend. This really surprised me because I was expecting her to be more aware of what her fellow females were fighting for. She said she wasn't a feminist because she thinks it's a "dumb movement." She said that women have gotten as much equality as they can have and now it's an excessive demand for women to want to be like men. She said that she couldn't define feminism because too many people have a different idea of what feminism is.
ReplyDeleteBefore these interviews, I thought that men would care less than women about feminism but I felt like there was some resentment between the stranger I interviewed and feminists. Obviously three people do not represent the whole population but I thought it was pretty cool that the stranger could have drastically different views than I expected. I don't know, maybe the stranger was trying to impress me with large words and made-up history but it worked.
That's really interesting, but if you consider one's experiences in life it would make sense that some people have not had any experience in feminism because of the way they were brought up or who they are, culturally and/or religiously
DeleteLike Afshin said, and as we talked about in class, there are definitely problems that arise from the ambiguity of what it takes to be a feminist, but I found that another big challenge is simply to overcome the existing stereotypes and negative connotations that surround the topic of feminism.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone else has encountered this from their interviewing, but some of the people that I have interviewed actively avoided the topic and refused to give an opinion when asked. One of my interviewees simply said, "I don't wanna open that feminist can of worms." I then tried to find out what makes the topic so objectionable to this person but to no avail; I stopped pressing on the conversation when I saw that this person was about to get upset.
Was that the right thing to do? If the other party is not interested, should we try to educate them anyway? Silence definitely does not incite positive change, but was the avoidance out of acceptance, indifference, or ignorance? Is there a solution when people shy away from the topic because they think they know too little on it to make a judgment, but they must talk about the topic to really understand it in the first place?
This sounds very similar to my experience. I interviewed two friends, a boy and a girl. When asked about the definition of feminism, both readily responded. The girl said equality and the boy said women's rights. But when I asked whether they would proudly identify themselves as feminists, both hesitated. In the end, both said no, not because they didn't support gender equality or women's rights, but because they believed there is a certain negative connotation to the term. They boy also said he didn't know enough about the issue to solidify his own beliefs.
DeleteIn answer to Wei's question, I believe people shy away from the term "feminism" because of ignorance and uncertainty. They aren't sure what they're getting themselves into when they use the term feminism. There's too many definitions and stereotypes associated with the word. However, this is exactly what makes it so important for us to talk about it.
My grandmother said something similar.
DeleteShe said she's for women's rights but not feminism. Feminism lost its focus.
I think it's true. With all the new talk about privilege, the feminist movement has gotten more complicated ever since race, sexual orientation, gender expression, etc entered the sphere of conversation.
I think the very definition of feminism as equality among the sexes has gotten muddled. Should these things be classified as another field?
In Korean, feminist is translated as "man-woman equality," but I think it has digressed too far and tries to encompass every marginalized group (or at least associate itself with it). The trans issue at Wellesley, where I can say with almost certainty that all students identify as feminists, may or may not prove my point.
I made a long comment, but nothing got published or saved, so I'll just abbreviate what I said. Here are some of the responses I received:
ReplyDelete"Feminism is not having females be more powerful than men, but rather for both genders to be equal! in my opinion, it applies to both genders, because for example, you have females that are labeled as "aggressive" if they ask a guy out because they are taking matters into their own hands (which should be something perfectly acceptable by society) and cases where guys should always be the "stronger" person in the relationship and it doesn't always have to be like that! So it definitely goes both ways"
"I think feminists range from all kinds of people, from the people who only say "oh yeah, I promote gender equality" to those who take drastic actions. Then there's the important part, self proclaimed feminists who claim that women should be given priority over men and that they're the master race or something. I'd compare these types of people to the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church, they have beliefs and they like to shove it down everyone's throats constantly."
"I believe that a woman and a man should be equals (some people say that's all there is to feminism), but I do not want to call myself a feminist because it some of the claims made by feminists are pretty ridiculous. like the 77c to $1 ratio thing is just dumb because it makes it seem as if that's the ratio for a woman and a man working the same job, which in fact isn't the case as that kind of discrimination is illegal. rather, it is the ratio of average income. more women are stay-home moms and unemployed (both of which are choices just like anything else) than men are, and that isn't going to change anytime soon nor should it need to.
as for who are feminists, all kinds of people are, but those kinds of people warp facts to make their claim a lot and that's what I don't like"
"Again, I'm twisting the definition of the word feminist. A feminist is hostile. A feminist looks to turn the tables, not set them straight. A feminist is spiteful and not like a gender rights advocate at all.
Because a gender rights advocate wants equality, not inequality in reverse. A gender rights advocate doesn't hate, doesn't want revenge, doesn't seek to subjugate others.
My whole response is kind of satirical in that regard, because I don't *really* believe feminism-the-ideal is a negative thing. But I strongly believe "feminism" the word is now shameful and something I don't want to be associated with. I don't want to be pegged as a social justice warrior. I'm just another person who believe in equal rights.
The inequality involved is something that many people say is complex and reserved for the discussion of intellectuals, but the beginning of the solution is clear. Each of us needs to make a conscious effort to correct our own prejudiced thinking, whether it is prejudiced towards women or men. I believe that the backlash of feminism is starting to push it away from the real goal, which is gender equality."
This sentence from the last response really interested me:
"Because a gender rights advocate wants equality, not inequality in reverse."
Overall, the comments were very varied and insightful.
Overall my responses were actually quite similar with each other, as all three of the people I interviewed actually passively and/or reluctantly called themselves feminists. Yet the comment from a 4th stranger who was standing on line behind me at Walgreen's made a sudden outburst. She overheard my conversation with the person ahead of me and could not help but talk with us as well. She talked a lot about how feminism is slowly getting "tired out" with its constant and sometimes meaningless repetition. She then pointed out that because so many people identify themselves as feminists but don't really know what it means or what it entails then it just makes the whole purpose of the movement for those who truly care and are passionate, much harder. The most interesting thing about this was that she was a student at Barnard College, an all-women's college here in New York City. She later on explained that she wasn't against feminism, but was simply worried about the direction the movement was heading in, and whether or not it will continue to bring positive change to society. She didn't identify herself as a feminist because she "wasn't fully mentally, socially, and emotional there yet". Although she may not be considered a completely neutral party, I thought her opinion was a good contrast to everything else I've heard from other people thus far.
ReplyDeleteI asked 10 people, and 4 of them (2 males, 2 females) didn't care for feminism and wouldn't label themselves as one, 3 of them (2 males, 1 female) considered themselves feminists but didn't seem to care TOO much, and 2 females were extremely passionate on opposing sides of the issue. (the last person pretty much was making jokes the entire time, so he would probably fall into the category that didn't care for feminism).
ReplyDeleteThe people that didn't care for feminism didn't think it was a big issue. They were fine with the way things were and didn't feel the need to think about it too much. One of them was a weightlifter- she was ok with separating men from women in competition, and having separate men’s and women’s bars (the women’s bars have a smaller diameter). Another one was a male weightlifter and was telling me about his feminist girlfriend, and ridiculous things she’d say such as women should be able to compete in the NFL.
The people that considered themselves feminists but weren't too passionate gave pretty generic answers.
The female that had strong opinions for feminism got mad when I asked her if she considered herself a feminist, because it should be blatantly obvious. (In fact, she said if I asked her in person she would have "smacked the brown off me"). But after we talked for a bit, her definition of equality was different from my definition. She's ok with women having certain things men don't have and vice versa, but still considers herself a feminist.
The other passionate female sees feminism as a group of women who think they're better than men. She acknowledges that the technical definition is equality of the genders, but she's also ok with most things the way they are. We talked about how it's called feminism, even though it considers both genders, and she said this is probably because it focused on women's problems. She mentioned that men and women should get equal pay, but was skeptical whether the statistic was true- if women were paid less, why would people hire men at all?
Everybody agreed on the definition of feminism. The disagreement stemmed from whether or not it was necessary.
Most of my responses from my friends were very neutral and similar. They said that feminism was when people actively go out and fight for women's rights. They also said that they weren't feminists because they didn't go and fight for women's rights.
ReplyDeleteThere were three more interesting responses I got.
The first was that one person said that he wasn't a feminist and didn't see the need to be one because he thought that women were more independent and had more opportunities now. When I asked him if he thought that women and men are now treated equally and have the same opportunities he said no. I found it interesting that he had earlier said that women and men should be equal but even though he feels that men and women aren't equal, he's not doing anything.
One person I talked to thought I had been dared to do something and that it was a joke. I gave up on him but through this interaction I felt like feminism isn't something that was taken very seriously anymore.
The third interesting response was a person who said that she was a feminist but didn't want to publicly identify herself as one because of the reputation that feminists attack the male gender. She also said that the reason she believes in feminism is that in a normal family both men and women have to go out to work so they should have equal rights. I found this interesting since women being able to go out and work was because of feminism. It shows how much feminism has evolved from fighting to be able to vote or work outside of the home.
Recently whenever i go online or through social media, i find that the spirit of feminism is very much a common topic. I went on a trip to Crown Heights yesterday to see the Lubavitch Hasidic community. The Rabbi claimed that women in Judaism is more elevated then the male, but why do they not have equal rights? I read this fascinating article about one women's escape from the Hasidim lifestyle and the repercussions and limitations she faces in her society because she is a woman.Its a really interesting read because you never really hear about Jewish women being "oppressed"
ReplyDeletehttp://nymag.com/news/features/48532/
I also found a Buzzfeed article and on it were illustrations about independent and strong women. I find it kind of funny how the Artist Carol Rosetti and some of my friends think independence is everything for a women. My friends are flabbergasted by my dream of getting married young. "Why would you waste your youth giving up your independence by having kids and being supported by a guy?" they ask. My response is that having someone to support you does not make you any less independent, and someone taking care of you does not make you weak. If anything two people together are stronger.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jobarrow/these-stunning-illustrations-contain-powerful-messages-for-w#2sn330d
To the young lady who have replied that "feminism is the liberation of women from men, realizing that women do not exist for the sake of men's pleasure nor benefit. I am a feminist." I think she is a very strong individual who is not afraid to voice her opinions. It made me happy to hear her enthusiastic response, but i do believe that she has a slightly biased opinion of the nature of men. Another individual i asked noncommittally replied "Feminism is a fight for women's equality and rights. I'm not a feminist because it doesn't really relate to me" I wish i had magical powers right then to make him walk a full moon in a women's moccasins, but alas. I think the best the members of our society can do to reach equality is be informed and aware.
I asked a few people about their views on feminism yesterday, and one response really stood out to me. One interviewee gave the typical, politically correct definition of feminism, but when I asked whether she considers herself a feminist, she said no. She said this is probably because she takes for granted what feminists in the past have done to change our society. Since she's in an education system where both males and females are given the same opportunities, she doesn't feel as if the inequality of females is a personal burden. Because she's satisfied with her position in society, she doesn't feel the need to go out and advocate for further rights. Based on this, it is clear that she sees feminists as people who go out of their way to advocate for more rights for women. This definition of being a feminist really stood out to me because it made me question who feminists actually are. Can one be considered a feminist if he/she merely goes along with the idea of equality between men and women without going further to actively achieve this idea? Is feminism merely a belief or an empowering movement?
ReplyDeleteWhen asked if I myself am a feminist, I say that I am in theory, but why is it necessary to include "in theory"? Feminism has evolved over the years in that it has become something extremely broad. It has taken so many routes that there are many ways that people interpret it. I do believe that women and men should be treated equally, but in actuality, I can't exactly define what this "equality" is. There seems to be a loss of focus: "I believe in equality. What now?"
It is also important to note that because feminism has become so broad, there are radical beliefs that can actually put a lot of pressure on women. The idea of a "strong, independent woman who don't need no man" pressures women into gearing towards a certain lifestyle that may make them seem "strong". I feel that it important to understand that it is still ok for women to be vulnerable even if the midst of feminism. Societal norms have been so deeply engrained into our minds that it is difficult to suddenly change the gender roles society has created. For instance, if a woman wants to date a man who is reliable, so be it. If she expects the man to pay on the first date, so be it.
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ReplyDeleteAll of my responses involved an identification of being a feminist and equating feminism to the equality of gender. However, in my last interview, I decided to first ask if she was a feminist and then ask for the definition of feminism. My last response quickly declared herself as a feminist, but when asked for the definition, there was 30 seconds of hesitation and then the person replied with uncertainty, "the equality of gender".
ReplyDeleteThis is pretty interesting as it draws the question of how well does society actually understand the term of feminism? The dictionary states that it is the equality of the gender, but I have always felt that the word "feminism" gave off a pro-female connotation. As mentioned above, the many stereotypes surrounding the term make feminism something hard to define because it has expanded and changed through the years. The female tone of the word may be a discouraging factor for guys to say they are feminist, but even more so, the uncertainty of the definition of the term is the more glaring reason behind many people's hesitation to proudly claim they are a feminist.
Also, sort of relevant:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/15/anita-sarkeesian-feminist-games-critic-cancels-talk
The author of the video "Damsels in Distress" recently cancelled a talk at a university in Utah due to a death threat calling her "everything wrong with the feminist women" which also threatened to let us "bear witness to what feminist lies and poison have done to the men of America.”
We like to think of feminism as equality of gender, but in the context of the societal definition does feminism actually 'poison' men of America??
Sorry this is a day late! Can I still post?
ReplyDeleteI interviewed three of my friends, but when I realized they were all female, I decided to also interview my brother as well, just for a male opinion.
My friends all had similar views on feminism. Two of them defined feminism with political correctness ("belief in the equality of genders") and another just defined it as female empowerment in general. Only one of them identified herself as a feminist. She admits she's not an outspoken voice, but she defined a feminist as someone who believes in the equality between sexes so she fit her own definition. The other two didn't think they were feminists, because their definitions included a strong commitment to the cause. So while they both believe in equality, neither wanted to actively contribute to the cause. The varying degrees of dedication to the feminist cause is what differentiates them so I think that it's interesting that according to one definition of feminist, all three would be considered feminists, but according to another definition, none of them would be feminists. So judging from other comments also posted here, it seems that there's a recurring discrepancy on how much "work" needs to be done for the cause in order to be considered a feminist.
Okay, now the strangest response I received was from my brother. He said feminism was like a "fetish (in a not-sexual way)." It's a desire to see strong and independent women. To him, feminists work to bring attention to their cause, which is to produce such characteristics in all women. He thinks feminists are trying to change the viewpoints of society. He created a divide among the feminist community as well, labeling these two groups as "aggressive feminists" and "passive-aggressive feminists." Aggressive feminists go out of their way to seek demeaning portrayals of women and bring attention to it. Passive-aggressive feminists point out such portrayals as well, but do not necessarily seek it. I don't think he knows what passive-aggressive really means... Anyway, he's not a feminist. I was pretty confused about the things he said after that, but I think he was trying to say feminists only seek attention for their cause but leave it to others to actually create the change (they cause the change, but don't create it). After this discussion, I found myself wondering who specifically had the power to create the changes feminists seek. If you ask the question like that, it's not the feminists who have the power--it's everyone else. Everyone else needs to want to change if feminists are to ever reach their goal and feminists aspire to create that desire to change. So I think I sort of see where he's coming from, even while disagreeing (I didn't like how he seemed to imply that feminists are merely attention-seekers).
Anyway, here's a link to tvtropes' page on feminism. The "Common Myths and Misconceptions About Feminism" section is interesting. Even if it might not apply to us, it's still a good read on how many others may view feminism from the outside.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Feminism
I talked about the responses I received in class the other day but I just wanted to go in depth a bit more.
ReplyDeleteI discussed the feminism questions with four people, two guys and two girls. Although I asked these people the questions individually, they were all in the same vicinity and were free to listen to each other's point of views.
The first person I asked was a guy. He defined feminism as the belief that men and women are equal. When I asked him whether or not he was a feminist, he said it depends on the "type" of feminism, referring directly to the extreme groups.
The second person I asked was a girl. She defined feminism as a strong passion for women's rights and said she didn't know whether she was a feminist or not.
The third person I asked was a guy. He defined feminism as women wanting equal rights, but in a way that is "really shoved in your face" and becomes anti-man. Upon saying this, the first guy that I interviewed chimed in and agreed, adding that some feminists want to change the relationship between the sexes so that men are "whipped" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whipped). The second guy then added that sometimes there are double standards and feminism makes it so that a woman can hit a man, but a man can't hit a woman, which didn't really make sense to me (I then asked him isn't that what feminism is trying to eliminate - different standards for men and women. He replied with an "oh right. I don't know".). In regard to the feminist question, he said that although he agrees with equality between the sexes, he was indifferent about feminism and wouldn't actively do anything to advocate for it, such as a picket riot.
The last person I interviewed was a girl. Her definition of feminism was the belief that women can believe whatever they want without judgment and gender equality. She also said she was definitely a feminist.
I thought these interviews were interesting for a couple of reasons. I think it's pretty clear that these four people understood the true, basic meaning of feminism, but as soon as the question became if he/she was a feminist, the term took on a more negative meaning. It's also worthy to note the change in responses between the two guys as they came together. Suddenly, feminism became about women dominating men, even though they had previously given gender-neutral responses before. I think this occurred because these two guys were in the presence of three girls and wanted to tell us what we wanted to hear, but as soon as one mentioned a negative part of feminism the other saw it as okay to bash on feminism. I guess when you're in numbers, it's easier to share your true thoughts.
(I spent time writing something up and then it was eaten up. This is relevant for a point made later in this post.)
ReplyDeleteMany of the individuals I spoke to spoke about the consequence, but did not talk about the action. They are thinking ahead, but they hypothetical futures are rooted in disbelief. While walking to school, the topic of children was approached for some reason that is still unclear. They wanted boys because they didn't want to raise a girl in today's society where they are harassed and violated. Not wanting them to feel as they currently do. After hearing her reasoning, I asked her why she didn't turn to feminism to make the future a more bearable place. She didn't believe that feminism could go to the effect of providing for a safe future. Everything regarded feminism was understood, but there was that crippling doubt in the movement.
The portrayal of feminism has been discussed within the class and examples of how it is portrayed on the internet has been shown. While reading the New York Times, someone I hardly knew asked to read an article regarding Anita Sarkeesian and the individual who threatened to carry out a mass shooting. This person was very heated on the topic and could not believe that people would go to such an extent. This was an opportunity to discuss feminism who seemed as though they were one. Indeed they were. After asking what she would do if someone called her a "feminazi", she responded that she would counter with sarcastic questions and a potential punch. I realized that the portrayal is not skewed because of radical feminism. It is skewed because there are opponents who wish to made the entire movement revolve around twisted words.
One of the other individuals I asked for their opinion on feminism replied with "too much effort". I'm rewriting this post, but most people will not even start typing on the issue. Let alone send.
There has to be better ways to shape people that is more prominent in our lives. Having articles on feminism on the front page of the New York Times is great, but not when it regards a mass shooting associated with talking about it.
When I asked my friends whether they were feminists they all said no. When I asked them if they believe that men and women should have equal rights, they all said yes. Even though feminist basically means equality between men and women, that's not what people think when they hear the word. A lot has to do with the word itself, since feminist sounds like female superiority. I think the other factor is that when people think of feminist they imagine a super radical woman who wants to point out every problem due to discrimination. I believe that radical feminist or feminist who refuse are narrow minded are the problem. For example. a lot of them would like to point out the gender discrimination and unfair opportunities. However when one actually research into this field, one will find that for every dollar a man makes, a woman makes 93 cents, which is basically equal. in addition, in 4 of 10 households in America, women are the sole or primary earner. Another problem radical feminist point out is sexualization of women. However, I think that in our society, both men and women are sexualized because sex sells. People place a large importance on physical appearances for both male and females. Just go shop at Hollister, and you'll see male models walking around without shirts.
ReplyDelete