Sorry Gatsby readers. I'll get an extra credit that caters to your needs ASAP.
We've been discussing bullfighting and a persistent question that we came to was "Why do people enjoy this stuff?" What is our fascination with violence? Consider the variety of examples in which there is a distinct market for violence: various video games, the rise of MMA, our nation's love of firearms, and many more. And as a people we are naturally drawn to violence, the way we stop and gawk at a horrific car accident. I've added a video link that depicts several common items exploding in slow-motion. For a lack of better words, the images are stunning. BUT WHY? Why are we so drawn to destruction? Let's discuss this. Please use any point made in this paragraph as a jump-off but also include discussion of our novel as well!
I think the reason that we are so fascinated with violence is because it seems like there is some sort of control or power that we normally would not have. For example, while most of us will not go to war or be in MMA, things such as video games allow us to experience the "power" that MMA fighters or soldiers are believed to have. Because we do not actually participate in these things, we have the false perception that they are exciting, while in actuality they can be threatening to us. This is like how in TSAR, Jake is fascinated with bullfighting; because Jake himself is not bullfighter, the dangers of bullfighting are not pertinent to him. However, he does sense the power that the matador has, the way that they can lead bulls around and eventually kill them. Jake's fascinating is further amplified because he does not have such power in his own life: Jake does not seem to be able to have much influence over people like Brett does, and has difficulty severing relations that are bad for him, such as his relationship with Brett.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with Alex. Adding to his mention of the power aspect, in fights, people do not hold back and they open themselves to reveal the innate savage beasts,a part in all of us. Within all of us, although I would like to think we're all generally good, there is still the "dark force," hobbesian aspect. Also, although bull fighting is a performance, the act isn't staged. In bullfighting, one never knows what the outcome is, and well, it's real. One doesn't know if a person is giving up the thing dearest to one, life. That's another reason why I feel violence is so appealing, one is physically hurting another, and humans are very fragile. One moment one could be healthy and living and the next moment, one could potentially not exist. That's why all the scary stuff, roller coasters, scary movies, war, is so interesting, it gives the thrill of the chance one might not come out alive.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aleks' point that watching violence is so intriguing because we can see it unfold and not have to be in any danger ourselves. We want to watch the video because it allows us to satisfy our curiosities of "what would happen if I did this" without actually having to face any consequences. Video games such as Grand Theft Auto also serve this purpose. We can hijack cars and shoot prostitutes without ever leaving the safety of our own homes! We wouldn't do these things in real life because of all the consequences, so virtually committing these crimes is appealing. Adding on to what Jennifer said, there is also the adrenaline that you get from watching violence (even fake violence) which is exciting and for many, even stress-relieving.
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ReplyDeleteI think the purpose of watching mma and playing violent video games are somewhat different. People watch mma (mostly guys) because its one of the ways in which people can see who the strongest and toughest guy in the world is. I think guys are just biologically made (??) that way. I mean, when theres like a school fight between two kids, usually guys just run up to them and watch them fighting. The winner usually becomes the hero among the students. Human beings tend to look up to someone who is physically tough. I think thats like our basic instinct in a way. Before civilization had settled, the chief of the tribe was usually the strongest and the most masculine guy. We are now sophisticated so we do not believe in power that comes from strength and violence, but i think we still have tendency to worship physically strong and tough people in our unconsious minds.
ReplyDeleteViolent video games are different. We like to play video games simply because we can expereince various things indirectly, through cyber space. War games like call of duty allow the player to expereince the battlefield through extremely intricate systems. As Christina mentioned above, games like GTA are played because people can expereince the omnipotence. I think humanbeings not only look up to "strong and powerful" people but they also want to actually become one- they want to be powerful up to the point where they can freely do anything they want to. And if they have that omnipotence, they will mostly likely use it to try things that they couldnt do in ordinary life. In the movie "hollow man", Kevin Bacon, after he becomes invisible, expresses all kinds of desires, including sexual desires, since no one can stop him from doing so. Kevin Bacon feels omnipotent by doing those things. It is like a real life video game to him in a way. Similarly, during war, soldiers do all kinds of inhumane things to the POWs and village people, such as raping them or just slaughtering them, because they feel like they are god or something.
People like WATCHING violence because they are not the one getting beaten up. Most of the examples used so far (movies, video games, car accidents) allow the viewer to get the thrill that comes from the violence without taking part in it.
ReplyDeleteIn wh's example of a school fight, kids around the fight were attracted to it and started watching it. However, if any of those kids were getting the worse end of the fight, they wouldn't be so attracted to it. The same goes for violent video games. People play them because it allows them to see violence without actually experiencing it. They aren't the ones doing the actions they see on screen. They're just watching what happens when they press a particular button on the controller.
People run away from fires(if it is dangerous to them, otherwise they would watch) and terrorist attacks, but they will run closer to watch street fights. So, I agree with Mark because as long as they don't get hurt, people love to watch violence. When we watch a fight, or play violent video games, we are not directly involved in the act. However, we get to experience the thrill vicariously.
ReplyDeleteBut I do not think that the reason that people like violence is related just to the "thrill" of it. I think we, as humans, have an instinct that encourage us to fight. As WH mentioned above, this probably goes back eons when humans lived in smaller tribes and often fought with neighboring tribes and wild animals. If our instinct did not make us enjoy violence to some degree, we would not have prospered. We would not have resisted enemies and hardships, and would have given in to violence. Men are especially inclined to violence because they had to do take most of the physical punishment, and as a result, men are still more aggressive. That may explain why many men like to play violent video games, and watch fights.
As said earlier, violence allowed early humans to conquer other tribes, and often win prizes, such as food and territory. It led to prosperity, and power. The theory of Darwinism says that the strong creatures will survive and the weak creatures will die out. It also means that stronger men are more attractive to women because they had a better chance of surviving. This also leads us to Brett. She really enjoys watching a bull fight because it is a real act of violence that showcases the power of Romero the matador. Romero dominates the bull, and shows that he is not afraid of it. It really shows his masculinity.
In terms of Darwin's theory, masculinity is really important because it shows who is stronger and who is a better survivor. We can observe this from the animal world! Masculinity is important to both men and women because men theoretically need it to attract better women, and women need to see which man is the strongest. Men, in their attempt to prove their strength, would get in fights (as I said, animals do this all the time), and women would take the winner.
I agree with Jennifer that human beings enjoy watching others experience something scary because it gives them a sense of thrill. While watching the Dutch TV show of objects being destroyed in slow motion, I had a feeling of fascination. I think a major reason why people enjoy watching horror movies or something that depicts someone else feeling pain is because we never know what will happen next. Jake, for the same reason, enjoys watching bullfighting because he can never predict the results. A bullfighter's performance is based on their movements and how close they get to the bull. The closer they get to the bull, the more dangerous it is so the audience is more impressed. Jake can watch someone put their life into danger while being able to casually sit and watch. He enjoys the sense of power, as if he's watching over the bullfighter.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mark. People only enjoys watching violent movies or video games games because there is screen blocking the viewer and the violence taking place. People feel a sense of security as they watch violent films because they attain comfort and relief that they are not taking part in such activities.
ReplyDeleteIn The Sun Also Rises, Brett is so fascinated with the bull fight while Cohn hides away from the scene shows how their sexuality roles are reversed. Brett displayed masculinity by being fearless and Cohn is displayed as weak by being fearful. This also shows how Brett holds a much higher power and authority over Cohn. She is able to manipulate him and control him.
There is a fascination with violence because that has always been the way humans had solved their problems. Since the beginning of man, cavemen have hunted for their food. The Ancient Spartans society was centered around their military and conquest through war. In medieval Europe, princes had to fight to win the hand of marriage from a lovely lady. It has always been part of human nature to glorify war.
I think people enjoy violence because it is something that can be achieved very easily. In science, we learn that between order and chaos - chaos requires less energy. In a world where we are taught to be proper and polite, sometimes it is enjoyable for us to give into this "dark force" as Jenn puts it because it is easier. Whether one is seeing it or being a part of it, violence can possibly alleviate the stresses of controlling oneself every hour of everyday. I also agree with Mark in that watching violence is a lot easier than being a part of it but watching it still offers a type of freedom to the viewer.
ReplyDeleteLike in the passage from The Sun Also Rises we looked at today in class, where the farmer was killed by the bull. All the people who were taunting the bull and whatnot were enjoying it because they taking an escape from the proper ways of daily life. This can also possibly be applied to the lost generation where they all had to grow up very quickly but probably were unable to handle the stresses they had to face. They wanted to escape, so they all just moved away to other countries. This might be a long stretch but that's just what I was thinking.
Like Jennifer, I think all humans have a dark side which includes a primitive instinct that makes them like violence. However, most people don't like feeling pain, so the easiest way to satisfy that instinct would be to watch others perform violent actions. For example, football is arguably the most popular sport in America. Having violence is probably the reason for its popularity. The audience likes watching players deliver big hits even though that tackle could cause a player to experience life-threatening concussions. I think the desire for violence also comes from people's curiosity. Instead of risking their own physical state, they would rather experience it harmless ways such as video games. To relate this to The Sun Also Rises, when I read the description of the bullfights, the aficionados seem to be quite bloodthirsty. They would jeer or boo if the matador didn't let the bull close to them, which shows their primitive instinct.
ReplyDeleteThe fascination that people have with violence could also be credited to the sense of superiority it gives them. Pretty much all people have their own personal problems to deal with. However, the sight of others that are doing worse than us can somehow make us feel better, in the "hey, at least I'm not *him*" sort of way. I think that it is human nature for people to want to do better than others. That way, they have a little more meaning to their lives in that they feel that they have obtained some level of success, relative to others. You often hear about people using violence, whether it is watching a horror movie or playing whack-a-mole, to calm down and forget about their troubles. In this way, these people are taking their anger and channeling it to something that is readily available for abuse. Similarly, Jake in The Sun Also Rises sometimes sits back and simply watches other men fight for Brett. Jake is able to placate and pacify himself by watching other people ruin their lives as a result of just one girl.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the people above. The interest in violence is a thrill and a source of excitement by allowing people to experience indirectly the pleasures of violence, power and a lack of consequences. I believe this has to do with people's desires to be unshackled by the restrictions society places on them. Much like what Beverly said, people have a hidden dark side to them which often entails interests in values that one would normally not reveal to others. One such interest is violence, an action which often is associated with being brutish. However, activities exist which allow people to engage in their interest in violence. Contact sports, watching contact sports, video games, books, mangas, movies, etc. allow people to enjoy the effects of violence without any consequence. Freedom has been, is and always will be the desires of people and this fascination of violence is an example of a desire for freedom from the morals society places on us. The freedom you receive from the vast amounts of activities one can do to experience violence provides pleasure, which leads us to keep coming back for more.
ReplyDeleteThere’s an episode of How I Met Your Mother in which the male characters end up fighting a strong and burly bartender. Ted and Barney are reluctant to engage in such violence at first, but they take this opportunity to impress the women in the bar. Marshall, however, believes that there is nothing noble about fighting and that by not participating in the fight, he is taking the high road. Everyone then mocks him for being unmanly—his wife’s kindergarten students also laugh at him for not fighting. It’s interesting how young children are attracted to violence. Since being able to walk, kids have been playing with toys that suggest violence and they’ve been watching cartoons that emphasize the fact that characters have to fight and win in order to be heroes. They grow up with all of this, allowing them to think that violence is okay.
ReplyDeleteViolence fascinates us because it evokes the question: what if? Video games place us in situations that we would never want to be caught in reality, but having the curiosity to involve ourselves in them and then experiencing them though a screen allows us to have control over something we usually wouldn’t have. The security we have behind our screens invites our desire for more action because control is addicting—we have power over how we feel when experiencing dangerous situations in games. Perhaps it is also the fact that enjoying violence makes one seem more masculine. Robin Scherbatsky in HIMYM encourages Ted and Barney to fight because a guy who fights is “hot.” Jake, in TSAR, believes the war took away his masculinity—it’s possible that Jake is thus an aficionado of bullfighting because the power the matador has in the ring allows him to experience “masculinity” vicariously.
Erica Kwong Pd. 2
ReplyDeleteI believe that people enjoy violence because they do not experience it day to day. It is something interesting in our otherwise, mundane daily lives. With Mr. Ferencz’s car accident example, I think this explains why we slow down. Perhaps this has to do with the selfish part of human nature, benefiting from others’ misfortunes. We are happy to be bystanders and not part of the accident itself. Adding on to what Christina said, it helps people express their emotions and relieve stress. For example, one may connect with a character in a movie feeling similarly. Watching the character cope through violence may help the person feel better. Another example is venting emotions by controlling a character’s actions in a video game. In these circumstances, people do not have to face consequences to their actions. Only when people take out their anger and frustration in real life does it become a problem. Connecting this to TSAR, bullfighting is an example of escapism. For Jake, it is a way of dealing with his problems, such as his war injury. This allows Jake to get away from the drama of his post-WWI life of drinking at bars, pub dance parties, women like Georgette, and several men all vying for Brett. Also, he can express his masculinity by watching bullfighting, matadors (males) fighting bulls and steers (males).
When I asked my brother why people like watching destruction so much, he said "because it makes me feel powerful!!!" and then he proceeded to throw things around the room to show just how powerful he is. I definitely agree that watching violence in front of us and experiencing the adrenaline rush, but knowing we cannot be harmed is empowering. Not only is it empowering, but it's an exciting break from our own lives. That is the reason why "rubberneckers" stop to look at car accidents, or why we are entertained by objects blowing up in slow motion. Science explains that the universe tends towards disorder, and I think humans are no different. If the violence does not personally affect us in any way we are happy see the destruction and chaos that we wish we could take part in but can't because of the way our society is structured.
ReplyDeleteFor Jake, I think watching the violence of bullfighting provides both a method of escape, as Erica said, and a feeling of excitement in his postwar life. Watching the violence as a spectator rather than a participant allows him to forget about the horrors he has surely witnessed, if even only for a small time. In addition, watching the bullfights brings a sort of purpose and action to Jake's life. After the war, he has been spending his time working at a mundane job, getting drunk and wandering around the cafes of Europe. He remains "lost," not able to return to the US after the war. His friends are not particularly interesting, and he cannot be with the woman he loves. Watching the bullfights gives him a direction and much needed excitement, and brings him back to a time when he had control and a richer sense of self.
In the scene where Jake and Bill go to the Iriti River to get away from all the chaos and mayhem there is an emphasis on the bond that the two men share during their short vacation. Their escape is a deviation from society’s normal interest in bloodshed and violence. When I watched the video of the explosions, I felt that I have already seen too many of the same things happening. With the increasing number of romantic comedies in theaters, I feel that the American public agrees with me and is moving away from a fascination of violence and towards an emphasis based on feelings and emotions.
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