As we continue our reading of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, we find that Nurse Ratched argues that McMurphy’s "rebellion" is evidence of his insanity. Let's have a debate discussing this particular issue:
Is rebellion against rules and regulations a form of insanity or is it actually a healthy response to tyranny?
Let's discuss our text, but let's also extended our argument to real-life examples. Feel free to include links to pertinent articles, discussions, and videos. Be sure to read and respond your fellow classmates' insightful ideas!
I think its a healthy response to tyranny (and only tyranny). It could possible be considered insanity if the rules are indeed just and sensible, and yet the person insists on rebelling. Rebellion shows that a person has his or her own will and the ability to think for themselves. They don't just follow the government or a higher authority blindly because it has power. Rather they challenge they rules the don't agree with. This is a small excerpt from an essay : http://www.studymode.com/essays/Cause-Effect-Essay-Teenage-Rebellion-178152.html
ReplyDeleteI really liked the lines " Teenagers rebel due to pressure to conform, demands and commands, and insecurity. Teenagers, overall, rebel because they have a voice they feel is not being heard." This is something we can all relate to in our daily lives. Rather than facing a Nurse or Combine, we students face the "certain right thing to do".
I think rebellion is actually a healthy response to tyranny. In "One Flew Over the Kucoo's Nest", McMurphy rebelling against Nurse Ratched seems like a healthy response to me. Nurse Ratched should have no reason to be able to keep all these patients locked up in her facility while forcing them to follow a strict schedule. Nobody likes the feeling of complete inferiority and being completely unable to do anything about it out of fear. Thus, with the introduction of McMurphy, change is being brought into the mental institution, and he's standing up with no fear of Nurse Ratched.
ReplyDeleteIn the real world, when large groups of people were being oppressed, there was eventually someone that stood up in the face of death and brought about change. One such example would be Martin Luther King Jr., whose birthday is actually coming up in a few days. He bravely stood up against segregation with his famous “I Have a Dream” speech. He knew that white people wouldn’t like this, and would probably even resort to violence to stop him. However, he stood up against all of these fears and brought about change to segregation in America. Thus, having the courage to rebel isn’t a form of insanity, but a form of a healthy humane response.
Something I can connect this topic to would be the poem “The Unknown Citizen” by W. H. Auden. (http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15549) In this poem, the unknown citizen is an ideal, average citizen that the government wants everyone to be. However, this citizen has NO INDIVIDUALITY. He acts like a robot and seems to have set daily routines like us in school every day. The reason we find pleasure in breaking rules is because we break away from the chains of anonymity that our routines and this unknown citizen characterize. When we break a rule, we find great joy in being free and not being suppressed by the fear of our authorities. We feel like… INDIVIUALS! Look, if we want robots that would follow every command we give them, we can just build them with our individual creative minds instead of trying to turn every human into one. Give me liberty or give me death!
I agree with both Jannat Hossain and Yiu-Wah Au-Yeung in that rebellion in the face of tyranny is acceptable. Tyranny is when a governing body or person takes power and proceeds to abuse it, creating oppresion amongst the people they govern. The tyrant's power, however only comes from the people governed by him/her so by rebelling, the people could take back their power and not have to suffer, oppressed by the system. while the tyrant would be disposed. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest, Nurse Ratched's ward is ruled with an iron fist, having all the patients under her command, such as when the pecking party goes on, or when the patients are forced to follow her schedule, similar to (as chief Bromden calls them) machinery. When McMurphy rebels, not only is he declaring that he is not a machine, or part of the oppresive combine, but that he is his own person. This cannot be considered as insanity, because we are all individual, each with our own personalities, likes and dislikes as well as thoughts and feelings toward others. Similar to what Jannat said, rebellion shows the power one has to govern oneself. By governing oneself, and acting as your own person, it is very mentally beneficial. People that talk with the fear of being judged do so at a very high risk of negative consequences (detention at school, jail/prison or even death in the case of martyrs). without the fear of these consequences, we are free to go and do what we wish, which by many is considered to be a theraputic and honest way of living. http://www.selfhelpdaily.com/speaking-your-mind/
ReplyDeleteI really like how you related not rebelling to being a machine. It's a recurring theme in the book as we discussed.
DeleteI think that Nurse Ratchet is saying that rebellion is only evidence of McMurphy's insanity because she said on pg.157 that "our red-headed hero will cut himself down to something patients will all recognize and lose respect for: a braggart and a blowhard of the type who may climb up on a soapbox and shout for a following, the way we've all seen Cheswick do, then back down the moment there is any real danger to him personally." Nurse Ratchet believes that since Cheswick is basically like an older version of McMurphy, that McMurphy will lose the battle against her and be treated by her rules just like Cheswick.
ReplyDeleteI believe that rebellion against rules and regulations is actually a healthy response to tyranny, not a form of insanity. I do, however, agree with Janaat Hossain that if the rules are just and sensible yet the person insists on rebelling, it may be seen as a form of insanity. If the rules and regulations are are just, there should be no reason to rebel. Rebellion can be used to express individuality but if the regulations are fair, it shouldn't be hard to convey individuality without rebelling. Although, in many cases, rules may not be fair. In the book "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" by Ken kesey, there seems to be many restrictions on how the patients should act or what thy should be doing at a certain time. These restrictions hold patients back from showing individuality, even if it's subtle, by having them all follow a routine. What McMurphy does seems to me like a healthy response unlike the form of insanity that the Big Nurse believes it to be. McMurphy laughs loudly, talks when he wants, stands up for himself, and wants change. McMurphy believes there should be a change in things that seems to be justified by the reason "'It's ward policy, Mr. McMurphy, tha's the reason.'" on page 93 in the book. This seems to be the healthy response, not a form of insanity.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone who has commented so far that rebellion against rules and regulations is a healthy response. First of all, it is not a waste of time to rebel because sometimes the outcome can surprise even in the worst situations. Also, it brings life to people by creating excitement and builds confidence. In the beginning of the book, Cheswick only supports others. However later on, he stands up to Nurse Ratched and fights for cigarette rights. On page 172, Cheswick is trying to get Nurse Ratched to stop rationing cigarettes and yells, "I want something done!" Before McMurphy introduced rebellion to him, he would not have done such a thing. After time, he grows the confidence he needs to talk back to Nurse Ratched.
ReplyDeleteEinstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." In a way, if people did not rebel against something completely wrong, they would be insane. They would be continuously allowing themselves to be pushed over, and expecting it to change without doing anything.
I also agree with the comments so far!! Rebellion is no way a form of insanity. However, it may be a form of insanity in Nurse Ratched's perspective. It is important for a person to step out of "the fog", as described by Chief in the book, and stand up for something that is right. In fact, living a life of continuous and endless monotonous or repetitive routines can make one insane. Without something being done about this, the majority would just be living life in this fashion: with the authority controlling their every action and worse, not being able to say or do what they want. McMurphy tries to challenge Nurse Ratched's authority, not only for the goal of becoming free from her tight control, but also for establishing hope in the other men in the ward, by showing that her power is not ultimate if they do not give it to her. This is a completely humane thing to do, because during all the years of being in ward and submitting to Nurse Ratched, all the "life" has been sucked out of the men.
DeleteTyranny is not something that one should subdue to. This is the unhealthy response. It is not right to be suppressed by authority. People deserve to have freedom and power of their own as well. If something is not right, something should be done. period.
And because today is the birthday of Martin Luther King, it is important to ponder upon his contributions towards our society. He is the reason why there are no more racial discrimination. If he had not stood up and "rebel" against racial ideas in his time, the world would be completely different. Not only would many of us not be able to attend this school, but many schools, and also how differently we would be treated in public.
I believe that rebellion is a form of insanity. The definition of "to rebel" is to rise up in opposition of an authority figure. However, in the book, Ken Kesey's has already established that resistance is futile. Even Chief's father, who resisted against the government, realized "there was nothing to gain by bucking against it" (pg 175) Fighting takes energy, and by resisting, the father will only become exhausted and vulnerable to the government. He is not just fighting one person, but rather a group of government. If he doesn't give in to one government official, more officials will come "worked on him for years..kept asking him to invest..." (pg 220) until he can't fight any longer. Eventually Chief's father succumbs to authority, because he has to more mental strength.
ReplyDeleteReaders also see this submission to authority in McMurphy when he stops standing up for the men. "McMurphy was doing the smart thing" (pg175) After realizing there is not definite amount of time he has to live in the ward, McMurphy realizes he has to obey the Nurse. The reason he first came to the ward was to seek freedom from work. Now he learns that in order to achieve his one desire, he needs to give in the Big Nurse.
In these two instances, Ken Kesey is showing how Authority is always going to win because of the power they have. Even if you fight for years, like Chief's father, if Authority has more people on their side, they will be cable to exhaust you until you can't fight any more. In addition, even though one doesn't like to admit it, Authority, often has control over the one thing you want , such as freedom in McMurphy's case.
So in the end, Authority is always going to win. Yet people still rebel. But, as established in class, people rebel for power, something we will never have because, something, someone, will always have power over us. So, are we insane for fighting for something unacheivable??
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DeleteI'm going to respectfully disagree with the idea that authority is always going to win. The authority that controls the United States today came into power through a rebellion against another authority.
DeleteBut, in the end doesn't the American government still control the people? Even though it was created by rebellion, it, too became a form of authority in the end. Authority is not really a single thing, rather a form of power that is passed on from one thing to another. A government is still an authority that has power over the majority, no matter how it got their power. We as the people. the majority are still constricted by government, regardless of whether it is under the British or American. Authority is inevitable and we as the majority will follow it.
DeleteRebellion is in no way a form of insanity because people are entitled to there own opinion and beliefs. In life, there is a large set of rules that everyone is expected to follow because people put them in place for a reason. However, this does not mean that the rules were put in place for a good reason. There have been countless times throughout history where rulers have imposed unfair jurisdiction or laws on civilians. Of course, these opinions are subjective, but that does not mean that one cannot believe that they are subject to unjust treatment.
ReplyDeleteLaw must be broad and all encompassing; otherwise the people who the laws target or do not assist will not support the rulers or government. This act of rebellion has been seen countless times through history. Therefore, laws are mainly fundamental beliefs that at least the majority of people agree with. For example, it is the fundamental belief of most people that one should not steal from someone else. This belief is able to be a law in almost every country in the world because it is what the vast majority of people value as important.
If someone truly believes that the rules and regulations they are expected to follow are unfair, they might actually go insane by not rebelling. Following the rules would be defying who they are every single day of their lives. It would force them to do something they do not wish to do. This would slowly but surely have a degrading effect on the individual because doing something unbearable routinely either makes the act more tolerable or harsher; neither of which is good. If the act of following the rule becomes tolerable to the person, the individual has changed on a fundamental level because as I have addressed previously, laws normally parallel the public’s beliefs. If the person does not change his/her beliefs, doing something against their philosophies will increasingly irritate him. Basically, if the person does not change their principles, they have the potential to go crazy by following the rules.
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God."-Benjamin Franklin
ReplyDelete(http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/rebellion.html#yxBZCTAg83rxpqXs.99)
Rebellion is a way of expressing yourself and finding yourself. Giving in to tyrants and not rebelling, means you have given up hope of being an individual. Strict laws restrict a person's potential, and do not allow for self-expression. Obeying strict laws means that you do not have to think for yourself, instead you must act upon what the laws (/tyrants) want. After a while of simply going along with what other people want you to do, you lose yourself in a way. Eventually, you forget to think on your own because that is being done for you. Even your actions are regulated and monitored so that you stay on track. In these kinds of situations, where laws are extremely strict, or a tyrant has all of the power, rebellion is necessarily to preserve your humanity so that you may be your own person, not a government robot. Rebelling frees you from the rules, if only for a few seconds. An act of rebellion helps you realize who you are, who you have become, or who you want to be. It helps you realize whether or not you feel comfortable in your situation, or if you actually have an opinion on how your life is run. An act of rebellion frees you from the restraints of society, even if it is not a tyranny, and allows you to experience life in an entirely free manner. Being free has a lot to do with rebellion. When you rebel, you are free from the rules (because you are not obeying them). Being free from the rules lets you look around without being stopped and look at yourself. Analyze. Do I like what I’m seeing? Now that I know that I can escape the rules, could I change myself to suit my own needs instead of the society’s? Rebellion allows you to see yourself for who you are and brings with it the hope that you can transform yourself into something you really desire to be.
Rebellion is a perfectly acceptable response to an unfair rule or policy imposed upon someone who disagrees with the rule or policy. In rebelling, the disagreeing party is essentially sending the message that their opinion matters and that they want their opinion to be taken into consideration. In fact, suppression of peaceful rebellion by the government is actually outlawed in the United States. The First Amendment of the Bill of Rights states that “Congress shall make no law…abridging…the right of the people to peaceably assemble.” This law can be seen as encouraging the people to stand up for their opinion, as the very foundation of U.S. government is the opinion of the people.
ReplyDeleteIn a mental institution like the one in OFOTCN, the opinion of the majority (the patients) is not valued very highly, as it should not be, because the patients are insane. What should matter in this mental institution is not what the patients want (because they are unable to make certain decisions for themselves), but what the patients need, which is therapy to help reintegrate them into society (Acutes) or a sanctuary to isolate them from society altogether (Chronics). Nurse Ratched’s job is to oversee the operations of a mental ward, which are supposed to benefit the patients. She instead abuses her power in destructive ways, initiating “pecking parties” and cruelly punishing patients, evidenced by Ruckly’s lobotomy and transformation from an Acute into a Chronic (Kesey 50-51, 16-17). It can even be said that Nurse Ratched is more insane than her patients.
The purpose of McMurphy’s nonviolent rebellion is to stand up for what he thinks is not right in the ward. McMurphy is the only one, at first, who both realizes the harmful nature of Nurse Ratched’s actions and is brave enough to stand up to her. As McMurphy is only taking a stand against what he feels is wrong, he is far from insane.
However, rebellion whose purpose is not to stand up for opinions, but solely to cause trouble is an entirely different case. The motives of those behind such rebellions may be to entertain themselves, in which case the rebels may be insane.
Hannah Fishman:
ReplyDeleteYES. Rebellion is insanity…but then what is normal? As I’ve told every insecure person including myself at times, being normal is strange and being abnormal is the familiar. To start off with, insanity is not negative, it’s simply a term we have manipulated to mean madness and idiocy and have relation to such mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. But is it all that bad? Maybe everything we do is a form of insanity considering the question we should be answering: What is normal?
Take this quote by Albert Einstein, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Sound familiar? Well, it should because it certainly pertains to our “rigorous” daily schedule that includes waking up, eating breakfast, taking a shower, brushing our teeth, going to school, working, socializing, returning home, and going to sleep. And then what do you know? We’re back on our feet completing just that the next day. Sound insane? Insanity IS consistent workouts at the gym, someone working to overcome shyness and build healthier habits. Insanity is Mother Theresa tirelessly serving the poor, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X fighting for rights we all deserve, Rosa Park standing her ground – putting her life on the line, and Gandhi believing in forgiveness, showing love and happiness in the darkest of times, and bringing justice to light.
Insanity is all of you reading this right now and choosing whether to agree or disagree because truth is – insanity itself is a rebellion against reality, where the qualities of perseverance, consistency, and loyalty shine brightest.
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DeletePerhaps insanity can also be defined as holding a belief that conflicts with that which is considered the norm. Take for instance, Copernicus's heliocentric model, which placed the sun at the center of the solar system rather than the earth, as most believed at the time. Would you consider Copernicus to have been insane?
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ReplyDeleteMohammed Iqbal,
ReplyDeleteNo rebellion is not a form of insanity. Rebellion shows that you don't want to be like the rest. If you were to go against something or someone you'll be recognized as an individual. Currently in 2014, being characterized as an individual is a great thing. Take for example Martin Luther King Jr he was against segregation and succeeded and was recognized as an individual. However, I believe that rebellion is only acceptable against tyranny. This quote by Albert Einstein "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results". If we were to rebel against tyranny, there would be change in the system if there is no change it will cause no advancements, no technology, and no individuality. Rebellion isn't insanity because it promotes change and change is good to society, its just that people fear it. Insanity in my opinion is thinking change is bad for society, which is the opposite of what rebels want.
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DeleteREBELLION IS INSANITY. According to Merriam- Webster insanity is defined as extreme folly or unreasonableness. Why would somebody go against what is the norm and is accepted every day? Why would anybody go against rules and laws that have been there for over a century? Some may say that it is to gain attention. This is insane, as there are many other ways to get attention such as making respectable achievements. Others would say that it is to try to get their opinions across. This is just as insane, why would one try if they knew they were to fail? There is no point in rebelling against rules using the reason; we want to express our opinions. The rules were made by people one gave power to. If one does not like the rule then don’t give the power to the person to make laws for oneself. Rules and laws have made the world what it is today, AMAZING. Many may disagree, but look around the beautiful skyline of New York City, it stands tall and firm since it follows the building structural code. Even our school, Stuyvesant, follows rules enforced by the DOE and that is why it is so respected and honored today.
ReplyDeleteIn One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, rebellion is insanity. McMurphy gives the patients hope that they may be able to change the rules and overthrow the Combine with his outrageous personality. For one thing, Cheswick is believes so much in this idea that he begins to speak his opinion louder and clearer with McMurphy backing him up. However, when McMurphy caves in and begins to follow the rules that are to be enforced, Cheswick has become so influenced by the idea that he decides to commit suicide. This is a sign of insanity, if McMurphy had not introduced the idea, then Cheswick would not have killed himself. Rebellion is also insanity when McMurphy decides to break the Nurses window when he does not get what he wants. Breaking the window not only increases the time he stays in the ward, but it also damages and cuts his hand. Rebelling has taken such a toll on McMurphy that he believes that he should hurt himself in order to get what he wants, this is insane.
I strongly believe that rebellion is a healthy and normal response to tyranny, and it should be accepted. In fact, not doing anything about tyranny and accepting all of the government's sneaky disturbances like a little docile sheep is insanity.
ReplyDeleteToday is Martin Luther King Jr.'s Day. Today would not have been possible if it weren't for the brave and courageous Martin Luther King Jr. Had he not rebelled against the norms and notions pertaining to white supremacy of his day, we would still be sitting in classrooms, restaurants, and public facilities separated by the color of our skin!! (Which is foolish because skin color is innate!!) But was Martin Luther King Jr. considered a lunatic? Maybe by a few during his time. But today, there is not one person right in the mind who thinks so. We all view him as one of the greatest heroes in American history.
So think about it- wouldn't it have been insane for NO ONE to take a stand against segregation in the 50s-60s? Yes, it would. It would be insane for no one to have fought against discrimination of individuals merely because of the natural and INNATE tone of the outside of their body, rather than the true colors within our bodies.
Rebellion against tyranny is in no way a form of insanity, and that is true. However, rebellion against other factors may be questionable....
Oops, seems like the comment I wrote up a few days ago never got posted.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I think people are seeing it too black and white. Insane has plenty of meanings, thought more often than not, is usually associated with a strong negative connotation. Assuming that insanity means opposed to the norm (or anything along the ideas of that), rebelling would be insanity. Rebelling is to go against an accepted rule—whether or not it is official—which weaves into that definition quite nicely. For example, a little boy chews up his school textbook. That would technically be a form of rebellion for damaging school property, and more likely than not, others will call him crazy for doing such an act. In a larger scale, a serial killer will be considered insane for going against the moral rule that murder is bad, as well as rebelling against the law.
Rebellion against rules and regulations is a form of insanity. According to Ray Bradbury, "Insanity is relative. It depends on who has who locked in what cage." In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, McMurphy is considered "insane" by Nurse Ratched because she has him locked up in the cage known to them as the Combine. As Courtney had mentioned, insanity is defined as extreme folly or unreasonableness. McMurphy's defiance of authority and the norm may not necessarily be a form of insanity. However, in the eyes of the people with control, not adhering to the rules is unreasonable. Thus, McMurphy is insane for rebelling. This can be connected back to any rebellion that has occurred. The ones rebelling see their actions as justified and righteous, but the party affected/ the party being rebelled against view them as foolish and unsound.
ReplyDeleteRebellion is not a form of insanity. Although many people perceive insanity differently, it is officially defined as "in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill." Everyday in our lives we experience rebellion, whether it be students not conforming to a teacher's rules or activists fighting for their rights. Whether one agrees with a rebel's standpoints or not, they still understand that it is normal to fight for what one wants. Our general society has adapted to and even accepted the act of rebellion, and therefore it is considered normal. Rebellion essentially causes change and change is inevitable. Change as a result of rebellion has also benefited society on numerous occasions. Susan B. Anthony fought for equal pay for female teachers and also toured the country in support of women's suffrage. She was told to stop by men, and was even fined for voting illegally. Almost fifty years later, women were finally given their rights due to the 19th Amendment. Anthony's rebellious contributions to the women's suffrage movement were commendable and they should be seen as a significant contribution, not a contribution coming from one who is insane.
ReplyDeleteIn One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, rebellion often leads to favorable outcomes for the ward. Initially, the group meetings were seen as a "Pecking Party", in which everyone in the ward targeted a person based on their wrongdoings. As the story progresses, McMurphy learns to take control of the Group Meetings, eventually removing the Pecking Party temporarily. McMurphy's rebellion is not synonymous to insanity because he took action on something that resulted in an outcome that benefited everybody.